Rockwell: Well,
good morning. This is Lew Rockwell. What an honor to have as our guest
this morning, Judge John V. Denson. Judge Denson is not only an important
lawyer in Alabama and nationally, but a revisionist historian. His
book, A Century of War, is a
tremendous introduction to the crimes of Lincoln, Wilson, and Franklin
Roosevelt. His edited books, The Costs of War and Reassessing the
Presidency are also very important works.
But one of the things we love about John Denson is he’s
constantly reading and finding new books. It’s just an astounding,
wonderful thing. And today, he’s come to us with two new books on the
origins of World War I that tell a different story from the normal stuff we’re
told.
So, Judge Denson, tell us about these books and their authors
and why they’re important.
Denson: Well, I brought you some more
hidden history. I came earlier with another book by the name of Hidden History.
Rockwell: A great book, too, yes.
Denson: This
book is entitled Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War. The
authors are Gerry Doucherty and Jim Macgregor and they are from Scotland.
They spent about 10 years doing the research for these two books. This
one was published in 2013. The second book has just come out in the last
couple of months. I have a first-edition here in paperback, and it’s
called: Prolonging the Agony: How the Anglo-American
Establishment Deliberately Extended World War I by Three-and-a-Half Years.
Rockwell: Three-and-a-half years.
Denson: So it brings up a lot of new
materials. I was just looking at the back. It says that everything
you learned about who started World War I is probably wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: To me, it’s almost like
a lawsuit where you’re the judge and you have lawyers submitting two different
briefs. And we’re talking about one event, the First World War.
We’ve got one book that says, “Germany is entirely at fault. Exhibit A is
the Versailles Treaty. Germany was guilty.” These authors say
that’s not true at all, that the guilty party is British – started it –and they
started it for a specific purpose. The only country standing in the way
of them creating a New World Order was Germany. So that’s the aim of the
study, to show how this group, a secret elite group, started World War I.
The inspiration, I guess you would call it, or the reason they
got into this was the earlier works of Carroll Quigley. Carroll Quigley
wrote two books about World War I and he went into World War II also. But
the first book Carroll Quigley wrote was called The Anglo-American
Establishment, and that was from World War I up through
1947. He finished writing it in 1949. It told about this secret
Anglo-American group that was put together for the purpose of creating a New
World Order. And he couldn’t find a publisher for that one.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: So he did 10 years of
research and toned it down some and wrote Tragedy and Hope. This is the first book I read
that indicated there was some secret society that was causing things to happen.
Rockwell: This man was a
professor. He taught at Harvard and he taught at Georgetown.
Denson: He did.
Rockwell: He was a very important guy.
Denson: Very accomplished historian,
taught at Georgetown. He had a student by the name of Bill Clinton.
And when Clinton gave his acceptance speech, his first acceptance speech, he
gave credit to Carroll Quigley for being the most important man that affected
his thinking. I think, if I’m not mistaken, Bill Clinton was a Rhodes
Scholar.
Rockwell: Yes, he was a Rhodes Scholar.
Denson: So part of this group’s plan
was to create the Rhodes Scholarships and bring Americans to Oxford.
So let me read something I’ve quoted a lot of times out of
the Tragedy and Hope.
It gives you the indication there is such a group that is influential and
that’s causing things to happen. Here’s what Quigley wrote:
There
does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile
network which operates to some extent, in the way the radical right believes
the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the
Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any
other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this
network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two
years, in the early 1960’s to examine its papers and secret records.
So here is a very accomplished historian. I don’t know for
what purpose they had him doing this, but they obviously trusted him to look at
their secret documents and nobody else was able to see them outside.
He says,
I have no aversion to it or
to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and many of
its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few
of its policies (notably to its belief that England was an Atlantic rather than
a European power and must be allied, or even federated, with the United States
and must remain isolated from Europe), but in general my chief difference of
opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history
is significant enough to be known.
So, you know, this really fascinated me. You know, it has
never made much sense to me how you get a world war going over the
assassination of an Archduke in Austria, I mean, assassinations of political
leaders and so forth, and what it had to do with England, you know.
The authors of these two new books, Hidden History, and
the Prolonging the Agony, go
into a lot of Carrol Quigley’s book. They rely on that. In each of
these two new books, Chapter one is on how all this originated. So
it all starts in 1891 with a Professor John Ruskin at Oxford. He had two
students that were a major part of this secret elite group, Cecil Rhodes and
Alfred Milner. And Alfred Milner ends up being with the whole group until
his death in 1925. He’s sort of the quarterback of the group. But
Cecil Rhodes took down notes of what John Ruskin said and recruited a group.
Both Rhodes and Milner went to South Africa. The Dutch had
settled that area down there as farmers. The group that Rhodes put
together started the Boer War. It’s one of the most brutal wars in
history. The British were criticized a lot for it because these were
farmers on this land down there, and that land happened to contain the world’s
best supply of gold and diamonds. So this group took over that. You
know the country of Rhodesia is named for Cecil Rhodes.
He wrote something like seven wills. One of them talked
about the secret group, and they pointed out that if you put that in a will,
it’s going to be a public document, so he took that out. But he made
Milner the trustee for his seventh will, and that’s when he created those
Rhodes Scholarships.
The idea of Ruskin that these people adopted – and I don’t know
if this was just a cover or whether they really believed this – but Ruskin
thought that the British Empire was the greatest political organization that
had ever been. It was created by the most intelligent, wealthy people.
That needed to be expanded into reclaiming America as part of Anglo-American
establishment, a secret elite. So that’s the way they got started.
The books, Hidden
History and Prolonging
the Agony, put together a diagram of who exactly these people
are. It shows you the inner circle, a very small inner circle of about
seven people, Lord Rothschild and others, international bankers that have a
tendency to loan money for purposes of war.
So the thing about going back to Tragedy and Hope,
the tragedy that Quigley talked about was that this group undoubtedly had a
terrible effect on the 20th century by causing World
War I and World War II. But the hope is that people will recognize that
wars and depressions are not natural events like an eruption of a volcano or an
earthquake; they’re man-made. The way to end war in the future is to
learn from the mistakes. And that was his hope, that this would help us
do that. But Quigley never abandoned his support of the idea of the
secret elite because he wanted a New World Order.
Let me point out that this book, Hidden History, has
51 pages of footnotes. The way I read it, I kept a marker there at the
footnotes. Every sentence almost contains a fact or a footnote, and I’d
go back to the footnotes and read it. And sometimes the footnotes tell
you a whole lot more than the text. But the sources they went to are
phenomenal.
They
came from all over the world. And a lot of established professors
furnished them information and sources and told them where to look, as long as
they didn’t use their names.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: These guys maybe want tenure or
something and so they don’t want to be associated with this kind of
revisionism.
The other book, Prolonging
the Agony, has about 35 pages of footnotes. But each book has
this diagram. So it’s useful when you read these books to use that
diagram and see who these people are and what section that they control.
In other words, they had the control of the academia, which is Oxford.
They control the writing of history. They had to control the
politics. Balfour is related — his mother was a member of the Cecil
family which had been the power behind the throne forever, and with the
Rothschild’s. Lord Rothschild was a member and financed many wars.
International banking, the news media, the people that own the major newspapers
were part of it. So they controlled the academia, the history, the
politics and the international finance. And J.P. Morgan and Rockefeller
eventually became members of that group.
Talking about getting into World War I, they recognized that
they were going to have to have America in the war eventually, so they decided
they needed a central bank in America. This group, as we all know from
Jekyll Island, the book about it –they went secretly to Jekyll Island and
created this Federal Reserve. The first bill was opposed by President
Taft. He said that it needed more government control; this is a bunch of
private individuals. So they had to get rid of Taft so they ran Teddy
Roosevelt. The group sent a fellow named Colonel House to promote a very
obscure politician named Woodrow Wilson. They got him elected to New Jersey,
the governorship, then into the presidency. And he was in full agreement
with this group and wanted to create the Federal Reserve and get America into
the war.
So here’s their plan of how to proceed. The only way
they could create this New World Order with the English-speaking hierarchy in
control was to get rid of Germany. Germany had progressed to the point
economically and in other ways to even surpass the British Empire in some ways,
and it was a real threat to their idea of the English-speaking Anglo-Saxon
world government, so they planned this war. They knew that they had to
get Russia and France and their land armies in to squeeze Germany. There
was a lot of behind-the-scenes talking to Russia and France back as early as
1904 about the war.
Rockwell: Wow.
Denson: None of this was known to the
Parliament. This was all secretly done. So they promised the
Russians that, you know, you get into this war and you can get Constantinople
and get your warm water port, get into the Mediterranean, when in reality, they
never intended for Russia to be successful in that. They were going to
let Russia get in the war and help them but they were going to prevent Russia
from achieving that goal. They talked to France suggesting that, they can
get Alsace and Lorraine back. So that was the carrot at the end of the
stick for these two countries.
So, they’re waiting for a spark that they can fan the flames and
get the war going. There was an incident in Morocco that looked promising
but it turned out the Germans didn’t take the bait. But when the Archduke
of Austria was assassinated –they weren’t a part of the plot to assassinate–
but they took that spark and fanned the flames by putting their representatives
into the inside of the Austrian government and the decisions it made as well as
in Serbia to make sure that they did not settle the incident. And the
demand that Austria made was, we want to come into Serbia and make our own
investigation, and the Serbians were instructed not to agree to that. The
Kaiser had indicated to the Austrians that he would support them. Then
when he saw how bad it was getting, he tried to talk them out of the
conditions. But they went on, and Austria then declares war.
So Edward, who became Edward VII, was, of course, related to the
Czar. He was considered a ne’er-do-well by Victoria and she had him on a
very strict allowance, you know, but he was traveling around extensively just
going on pleasure trips. But Lord Rothschild created an unlimited expense
account for him. He would talk to heads of government. The Russians
were convinced that they needed to mobilize and go to war. So then their
treaty with France then brought France in. So Russia and France mobilized
before Germany ever did anything. Finally, Germany had to protect itself.
So that’s how they got World War I started, using that incident,
the Archduke, as the spark. But they had all these other plans made to
get the war going.
Rockwell: John, what about the
Lusitania?
Denson: Yes, they had to get America
in, so the Lusitania is a major thing. Of course, Winston Churchill was
involved there. He made sure that he was not in England at the time, but
all of this was planned in advance. The Lusitania was built to have
secret compartments to store things in. It was financed partly by the
British government with an understanding that in time of war they could control
the Lusitania, but it was still a passenger ship.
One new thing I learned from these books was that the true manifest
of the Lusitania showed it was carrying a huge supply of explosives that were
being taken to Britain. This true manifest
was found in the presidential library of Franklin Roosevelt in 2012. The
false manifest that was used at Customs showed a few bullets were stored there,
nothing to worry anybody. But the secret compartments on the Lusitania
were designed for hiding and storing the explosives. The
Secretary of State tried to get Wilson to warn people not to be on the Lusitania.
He refused to give the warning because the whole plan was to use that to get
America in. But America was so much against getting in, that the sinking
of the Lusitania didn’t do the trick. But it shows you sort of a Pearl
Harbor deal, where you’re trying to provoke something and to get America into
the war. So that was the important part of it.
I was going to read a little bit of a section from Hidden History.
This is page 12. It says,
What this book sets out to
prove is that unscrupulous men, whose roots and origins were in Britain, sought
a war to crush Germany and orchestrated events in order to bring this
about. 1914 is generally considered as the starting point for the
disaster that followed, but the crucial decisions that led to the war had been
taken many years before.
Rockwell: So this was in 1904?
Denson: Right. It says, continuing here,
The horror of the British
concentration camps in South Africa, where 20,000 children died, is
conveniently glossed over; the devastating loss of a generation in a world war
for which these men were deliberately responsible has been glorified by the lie
that they died for ‘freedom and civilization.’ This book focuses on how a cabal
of international bankers, industrialists and their political agents
successfully used war to destroy the Boer Republics and then, Germany, and were
never called to account.
Rockwell: No war guilt there.
Denson: Right. This is on
page 14 of the introduction to Hidden
History. It says,
The members of this Secret
Elite were only too well aware that Germany was rapidly beginning to overtake
Britain in all areas of technology, science, industry and commerce. They
also considered Germany to be a cuckoo in the Empire’s African nest and were
concerned about its growing influence in Turkey, the Balkans and the Middle
East. They set out to ditch the cuckoo.
The
Secret Elite were influenced by the philosophy of the nineteenth century Oxford
professor John Ruskin, whose concept was built on his belief in the superiority
and the authority of the English ruling classes acting in the best interests of
their inferiors. And they professed that what they intended was for the
good of mankind – for civilization. A civilization they would control,
approve, manage and make profitable. For that, civilization, they were
prepared to do what was necessary. They would make war for civilization,
slaughter millions in the name of civilization. Wrapped in the great
banner of civilization, this became a secret society like no other before
it. Not only did it have the backing of privilege and wealth but it was
also protected from criticism and hidden beneath a shroud of altruism.
They would take over the world for its own good. Save the world from
itself.
So that shows you how the war got going.
The second book was published by another publisher. Random
House bought the publisher that did Hidden
History, and Random House didn’t agree and they didn’t want to do
the second volume.
Rockwell: I wonder if they bought the
publisher for that reason.
Denson: You would think
so. So they went to another publisher. And that’s why this book
didn’t come out until this year, Prolonging
the Agony of the War.
But they’ve got two quotes here that really show the reason for
prolonging the war. In other words, by 1915, it looked like it was just a
stalemate. There was no way that either side was going to win.
Well, that’s the worst thing that could happen for this group. Because,
number one, the international bankers needed to make more money for a long
war. And this group needed to smash Germany. They didn’t need to
leave Germany in power.
So the first quotation, from the opening of Prolonging the Agony, is
from Smedley Butler’s great book called War is a Racket:
War is a racket. It
always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable,
surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is
the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in
lives.
A racket is best described, I
believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the
people. Only a small “inside group” group knows what it is about.
It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many.
Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
In the World War [1] a mere
handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new
millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World
War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax
returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no
one knows.
So he points out what this book is about, prolonging the war in
order to make money.
The second quote is from a soldier, a famous soldier and poet
named Siegfried Sassoon. He wrote this a year before the war ended to his
commanding officer. This would be called, I guess, treason today. But he
says:
I am making this statement as
an act of willful defiance of military authority because I believe that the war
is being deliberately prolonged by those who have the power to end it. I
am a soldier, convinced that I am acting on behalf of soldiers. I believe
that the war upon which I entered as a war of defence and liberation has now
become a war of aggression and conquest…I have seen and endured the sufferings
of the troops and I can no longer be a party to prolonging these sufferings for
ends which I believe to be evil and unjust.
I don’t know what they did to him but he was still famous after
the war.
Rockwell: He had an important
reputation as a poet.
Denson: Yes.
Rockwell: So my guess is that that gave
him strength, that they couldn’t crush him.
Denson: Right. So they don’t
want Russia to get the Dardanelles and Constantinople so they have a plan for
that. But the Russians had complained that Britain wasn’t doing enough in
the war and the Russians were taking the big losses. So the plot was to
have a suicide war in Gallipoli to prove to the Russians that the British were
really trying. So it was a planned failure, planned by Churchill, that
they fought in Gallipoli and they were defeated. And that was the proof to keep
the Russians in.
The
way they got the Russians out is they financed the Bolshevik revolution in
Russia and with the understanding that the Bolsheviks would take over, that
Russia would get out. So the financing for the Bolshevik revolution came
from these people. And I’ve read many times before about Jacob Schiff
sending huge sums of money, you know, to the Bolsheviks to get the revolution
going. You know, I suppose they probably felt that if they could turn on
and off the money, they could defeat the Bolsheviks when they needed to.
That’s how they got Russia out. They had to bring America in. So
the Lusitania and other things, the submarine-warfare excuse, were brought to
bring America in. That had to bring the smashing of Germany. That’s
why you get to the Versailles Treaty and Germany is not a part of any of the
negotiations. And after six months, they come to the conclusion that the
war is completely the fault of Germany.
You and I have talked about this before, and this has been
recorded in several books, that John Foster Dulles and his brother, Allen, went
to the World War I peace conference with their uncle, Secretary of State
Lansing, and they let John Foster compose the war-guilt clause. I think
the number is part 231, or something of the treaty, holding Germany completely
liable. Germany has no role in getting that done. So they
accomplished their purpose of smashing Germany but almost ruined Western
civilization through World War I and the affect it had.
Quigley admits that this group had great intentions; this world
government would eliminate war.
Rockwell: Just have a lot of wars in
the meantime.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: Yes. And the whole thing
shows you that wars can be caused by groups that you and I are not aware exist
and that strings are being pulled by people behind the scenes. Wars can
be avoided, I think, by honesty and transparency. Everything that this
group was doing – they had Balfour, they had Lloyd George, Churchill. But
they were not informing the Parliament of what was going on. All this was
done by a few select, very powerful people.
These are two really great books. I recommend them and I
recommend you to read each sentence. People are necessarily going to say
this is conspiracy theory, and these authors realize that and say, this isn’t
conspiracy theory, this is conspiracy fact.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: To prove the existence of this
group further, David Rockefeller, in his memoirs of 2002, proudly claimed he
and his family have been a part of this group from the beginning and he fully
supported this New World Order. So this is not some fictitiousgroup. You’ve got Quigley, who
was right in the middle of it, studying it, seeing their secret
documents. You have David Rockefeller admitting that it exists. And
at an earlier Bilderberg meeting, in I think 1991, he thanked the “Washington
Post,” and the “New York Times” for the fact that they never revealed this
group existed. He said that they would never have been able to accomplish all
they had done if it had been exposed by the news media. So there’s been
no secret as far as Rockefeller. I don’t know of anybody else that‘s
talked about the group, except Quigley and Rockefeller.
But I think it’s a very important thing for history to reflect
the truth. And it’s my theory that wars can be avoided if we know the
truth; it’s not hidden from us by a secret, powerful group like this.
Rockwell: John thanks a million for
talking to us about these important books. We’ll of course, link them in
the podcast, and the other books you discussed, the Quigley books. This
is just such important information for us to have because they’re constantly
ginning up new wars. This is not something that ended in 1917 or
whatever. So it’s a constant thing. They make a gazillion dollars
out of it. They live on blood there. They’re like vampires.
So thank you for exposing them.
Denson: Let me give you one
personal experience before we sign off.
Rockwell: Please, yes.
Denson: About a month ago, I was
having my car repaired in another city. And this young man, who was about
35 years old, was having his new Porsche repaired in some way. We sat
there for about three hours, had to wait until they had it fixed, and so we go
into a conversation about how he owned several Porsches. And I said,
“What do you do?” He said, “Well, I was in the war in Iraq and
Afghanistan.” I said, “Really. And are these Porsches from your pay
as a soldier?” He said, “No. After the Army, I stayed on and worked
for contractors.” He said, “I worked for a private contractor in
Afghanistan for about seven or eight years.” And he said, “A person like me, as
the driver of a truck, I made over $200,000 a year. And I accumulated
quite some wealth, you know, in the Afghanistan War as a private contractor,”
he said. I never told him what my views were at all.
(LAUGHTER)
Denson: He said, “There’s no telling
what the owner, the private contractor, Halliburton, somebody else, Blackwater
or something, there’s no telling what they make,” he said, “if a truck driver
can make $200,000.”
So Prolonging the Agony goes
into how much money can be made out of war. And that’s why the
book, Hidden History is
very important also.
Rockwell: Well John, thanks a
million. And I hope you’ll come back many times. Keep enlightening
us about these important books that we might otherwise not know anything about,
and about the issues they discuss.
Denson: Thank you. Always good to be
with you, Lew.
Rockwell: Well, thanks so much for
listening to the Lew Rockwell Show today. Take a look at all of the
podcasts. There have been hundreds of them. There a link on the LRC
front page. Thank you.
