There has been a
similar debate at Steve Sailer's over the propagandistic term
"Judeo-Christian". There were four things in particular that I noted
from the comments:
1) The great American intellectual Harold Bloom reached a similar conclusion about the myth of the "Judeo-Christian tradition".
There is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian tradition. That is absolutely ridiculous. And fascinatingly enough there are two things that I’ve said throughout my life when I’ve addressed Jewish audiences, say at the Jewish Theological Seminary or such places, and they always get furious at me. But they’re both true. One is that nowhere in the whole of the Tanakh does it say that a whole people can make themselves holy through study of texts. That’s a purely Platonic idea, and comes out of Plato’s Laws. That simply shows how thoroughly Platonized the rabbis of the second century were. The other one, which I say in this book and it has already given some offense, is that in fact not only is Judaism, which is a product of the second century of the common era—and it’s worked out by people like you know Akiba and his friends and opponents like Ishmael and Tarphon and the others, is a younger religion than Christianity is. Christianity in some form exists in the first century of the common era. What we now call Judaism comes along in the second century of the common era. Christianity is actually the older religion, though it infuriates Jews when you say that to them.
2) Christianity has considerably more in common with Islam than with Judaism. The Muslims regard Jesus Christ as a divinely inspired prophet. The Jews regard him as at best a fraud, and at worst, an evil sorcerer who is in Hell boiling in excrement. The Jews are also awaiting the Antichrist and will worship him. The Muslims are not.
Unlike Islam, Judaism does not accept Jesus as a prophet or as having performed any miracles. The rabbi’s best guess was that Jesus was the illegitimate offspring of a Roman soldier and that Mary made up the “virgin” thing as an excuse. Nowadays they would go on Maury Povich and get a paternity test. They most certainly do not believe that Jesus came back to life after his crucifixion and then flew up to heaven.
3) Oliver Cromwell never allowed the Jews to legally return to England. The celebration of the "informal resettlement" is pure historical revisionism meant to hide the fact that they were illegal infiltrators there for hundreds of years, until 1858. And it was the same sort of evangelical ecumenites as today's churchian cuckservatives who were responsible for the legal emancipation of the Catholics and the Jews. Less than a century later, England found itself enmeshed in global wars, lost its empire, then its sovereignty, and was invaded by third world savages. Sound familiar?
4) This exchange was both informative and hilarious. The amusing thing is the way in which that David Goldberg's semi-autistic fan actually thinks he's being conciliatory rather than infuriating.
As a Jew, I have nothing against Jesus. At best, “Jesus” is a fairy tale creation, akin to Santa or the Easter Bunny. At worst, Jesus was a dangerous cult leader/sorcerer/terrorist, but who cares cause he’s dead. The real issue is political reality. And the fact is, Israel needs evangelical support.
- SpenglerFan
Really? Why is that? Why not use your awe-inspiring 115 IQs to take care of yourselves for once? I’d also like to let you know how much I enjoyed hearing the rationalist, “fairy tale” explanation of Jesus, juxtaposed with the suggestion that he might really have been an evil sorcerer. You don’t get that combination very often.
- Anon
1) The great American intellectual Harold Bloom reached a similar conclusion about the myth of the "Judeo-Christian tradition".
There is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian tradition. That is absolutely ridiculous. And fascinatingly enough there are two things that I’ve said throughout my life when I’ve addressed Jewish audiences, say at the Jewish Theological Seminary or such places, and they always get furious at me. But they’re both true. One is that nowhere in the whole of the Tanakh does it say that a whole people can make themselves holy through study of texts. That’s a purely Platonic idea, and comes out of Plato’s Laws. That simply shows how thoroughly Platonized the rabbis of the second century were. The other one, which I say in this book and it has already given some offense, is that in fact not only is Judaism, which is a product of the second century of the common era—and it’s worked out by people like you know Akiba and his friends and opponents like Ishmael and Tarphon and the others, is a younger religion than Christianity is. Christianity in some form exists in the first century of the common era. What we now call Judaism comes along in the second century of the common era. Christianity is actually the older religion, though it infuriates Jews when you say that to them.
2) Christianity has considerably more in common with Islam than with Judaism. The Muslims regard Jesus Christ as a divinely inspired prophet. The Jews regard him as at best a fraud, and at worst, an evil sorcerer who is in Hell boiling in excrement. The Jews are also awaiting the Antichrist and will worship him. The Muslims are not.
Unlike Islam, Judaism does not accept Jesus as a prophet or as having performed any miracles. The rabbi’s best guess was that Jesus was the illegitimate offspring of a Roman soldier and that Mary made up the “virgin” thing as an excuse. Nowadays they would go on Maury Povich and get a paternity test. They most certainly do not believe that Jesus came back to life after his crucifixion and then flew up to heaven.
3) Oliver Cromwell never allowed the Jews to legally return to England. The celebration of the "informal resettlement" is pure historical revisionism meant to hide the fact that they were illegal infiltrators there for hundreds of years, until 1858. And it was the same sort of evangelical ecumenites as today's churchian cuckservatives who were responsible for the legal emancipation of the Catholics and the Jews. Less than a century later, England found itself enmeshed in global wars, lost its empire, then its sovereignty, and was invaded by third world savages. Sound familiar?
4) This exchange was both informative and hilarious. The amusing thing is the way in which that David Goldberg's semi-autistic fan actually thinks he's being conciliatory rather than infuriating.
As a Jew, I have nothing against Jesus. At best, “Jesus” is a fairy tale creation, akin to Santa or the Easter Bunny. At worst, Jesus was a dangerous cult leader/sorcerer/terrorist, but who cares cause he’s dead. The real issue is political reality. And the fact is, Israel needs evangelical support.
- SpenglerFan
Really? Why is that? Why not use your awe-inspiring 115 IQs to take care of yourselves for once? I’d also like to let you know how much I enjoyed hearing the rationalist, “fairy tale” explanation of Jesus, juxtaposed with the suggestion that he might really have been an evil sorcerer. You don’t get that combination very often.
- Anon
